The Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, the Rt Rev Alan McDonald, has concluded his annual St Andrewstide visit to London, during which time he handed over an anti-Trident petition with 20,000 signatures to the Ministry of Defence together with other Scottish Church representatives.

He took time out of his busy schedule to speak with Christian Today about his views on Trident and a number of other issues hitting the Church of Scotland and Christians at this time.


You have handed in a petition to the Ministry of Defence. Being anti-Trident is very close to your heart but do you think they are going to listen to the demands of the petition?

I think sometimes in life it is very important that you do the right thing whether or not people are going to listen. And for the Churches in the UK, and in my particular case the Churches in Scotland, it is very important on certain issues to come out with a very clear moral and theological position. And that is what we are doing. So whether we are listened to or not I think the more important thing is what are we being called to do at this crucial time.

And we think in the three Churches that handed in the petition today, the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, the Anglican Church in Scotland and the Church of Scotland, as the three largest denominations we think this is a crucial issue and it would be at this time remiss of us not to speak out.

Are you encouraged by the unity of the three Churches on this issue?

Yes I am. I think sometimes we spend too much time looking at the tiny little nitpicking detail of things that divide us in the body of Christ rather than concentrating on just how much there is that unites us as brothers and sisters. Especially around issues like world poverty and nuclear disarmament I think there is a very strong sense of unity and that can only be good.

Is that something you want to see developed more, your collaboration on these issues?

Yes, I think if we can identify areas of interest or issues that are important then we should work together. It is not original to say this but so much now, particularly with young people, young people tend to be interested in single issue politics. Issues like Trident, Make Poverty History, these issues can galvanise people and I think it is vital for the Church to be involved in that debate and moving it forward.

But do you think the government listens to the concerns of church leaders and takes those seriously enough?

Yes, I really do. My experience in Scotland and in the UK is that the government ministers do take us seriously and do listen. Now, that doesn't mean we are always going to persuade them of our view but they certainly take us seriously in my experience and sometimes we persuade them about an issue and they alter their position. And that has to be as Christians being part of the democratic process.

It is also about holding to account those who are in authority and that is an important Christian principle and important Presbyterian one.

How do you see the Church working alongside government on issues like Trident?

The government has said he wants a full public debate on this issue. I hope the government will see sense and not make this issue a three line whip. I hope they will not whip their members but will allow them to vote according to their conscience. Conscience is a very precious thing in our democracy and as people of faith it is particularly precious for us.

So I would hope people are able to vote according to their beliefs and as a consequence of that it is perfectly possible I believe that we might be able to reverse what is likely to be the government's position.

The Sexual Orientation Regulations are passing through Parliament at the moment. Bearing this in mind, to what extent do you think Christians can be sure of that freedom to live according to their conscience?

I think always society develops and moves and changes and grows and there are strains and tensions along the way for all faith communities. But I think around particular issues there will always be particular concerns. And I think it is very important that we preach the gospel in our context. To do otherwise is to preach in a vacuum and I am sure that is not what we are called to do. We have to live with the tensions sometimes and yet we have to find a way of preaching the gospel in our context.

The Moderator Designate has caused some concern in conservative areas of the Church of Scotland. She has declared her intention to allow ministers to bless same-sex partnerships but at the same time Presbyteries are voting against that. How concerned are you about this issue? Do you see this issue dividing the Church of Scotland?

No I don't. A lot of people said that last year when the issue first came before the General Assembly and I was the person who chaired that debate so I had a fairly good vantage point to see what was going on. We are a broad Church. And there is a broad cross section of theological views in our denomination. I am not certain that the Moderator Designate was reported accurately in what she said but certainly what I can tell you is that the General Assembly last May took the decision that ministers should be able to do what has been our position for a number of years now, that they should be able to conduct or mark a civil partnership, which is now the law of the land, and that they should be able to do that without being disciplined

Presbyteries are now voting on that under the Barrier Act. But the important thing to remember is that the General Assembly, not just a Moderator Designate, decided in May that it was perfectly within line of our practice and theology to allow ministers to conduct a marking in some way of a civil partnership.

Church leaders have spoken very prominently in defence of the Christian Christmas. What do you think about efforts to eradicate the Christian Christmas on the basis that local councils, companies etc don't want to cause offence to members of different faith groups?

I think that's nonsense. I have recently had very good discussions with Muslim and Jewish leaders in Scotland and I am very confident that they want us to celebrate Christian festivals like Christmas and it doesn't trouble them at all. There may be some in society who are troubled by that but religious liberty means that we are able to celebrate these festivals and I certainly want people to celebrate Christmas.

Now, there is a way to do that and I think that the way to celebrate is to celebrate more simply, not to be involved in the consumerism and materialism that has so covered the essential message of the gospel, that the Word became flesh and lived among us.

So you think tackling that aspect of Christmas is more important?

I think the other issue is important but I think this is more important. Therefore I would recommend to people that they celebrate Christmas by doing two things. One would be that they celebrate Christmas by exchanging virtual presents more and more like goats and cans of worms and whatnot.

The other is to remember Bethlehem today because it is a scandalous thought today that the birthplace of our Lord in 2006 is surrounded by a security wall. That is a scandal and we must remember that this year as well.