Alastair Murray is Development Co-ordinator for Christian charity Housing Justice UNLEASH. Christian Today caught up with him at last week's Housing Justice conference to find out why homelessness remains in Britain and what churches are doing to help bring people off the streets.

CT: I think many question why homelessness still exists in Britain today, despite its being such an affluent country. Is it a problem with government, with society, with the homeless people themselves?

AM: I think it's a problem that's never going to go away, in that individuals struggle in different circumstances, with poverty, with mental health problems and so on. But it's a problem that has to be addressed by society as a whole and I think we have to own it as a problem and accept that it's not up to the Government, it's not up to other people, but it's up to each one of us to respond meaningfully to the difficulties people are in.

Especially as Christians, Jesus says we have to care for our neighbour. In the story of the Good Samaritan, the one who was most like Jesus was the one who responded to the needs of those around him.

CT: Housing Justice has made the point that Christians are great at giving out and giving the resources and materials that homeless people need, but we've also got to move towards support that helps them to become independent. How can churches do that?

AM: It's a difficult one really and it's like pulling in two different directions. For some people undoubtedly, those addicted to drugs and alcohol, we have to think what is their immediate need? Their immediate need is for drugs and alcohol. You may not feel comfortable supporting them in that need but that is their need. And somehow or other they are going to have that need met.

It becomes a question of wrestling with what our response is as an individual. I am very hesitant to lay down a guideline saying you should never give money to people begging. It's true that in the majority of cases people are begging to fund a drug or alcohol problem. But I am very reluctant to make a rule about that because I think it's important for people to think about that themselves.

But I think the numbers of people rough sleeping are certainly lower than they used to be and there is a lot of political will to get homeless people off the streets and reduce the length of time that people spend on the streets, and I support that, I think that's important.

There are certainly groups that are more and more excluded, though, from getting access to hostels, like people from the accession countries to the EU who have joined since 2004. There are those who don't have access to benefits for whatever reason, there are those who cannot cope with the benefit system and so exclude themselves, and there are the longer term people who are alienated from themselves and society.

Homelessness is complicated because it covers a lot of other things. People who go to homeless services aren't always homeless. They are usually on the margins in some way and lacking of a support network in some sense or another.


CT: And destitute asylum seekers have become an issue for churches as well.

AM: Yes, that has become an issue for churches. I was at a recent conference for the Red Cross where it was estimated that around 500,000 people were in the homeless asylum bracket. That's an enormous number of people. Some have been refused, some are living without documentation, and some have been here many years and are living by the black economy, just surviving. You don't see so many of them in the street because they are often in precarious situations and have no right to be here.

CT: There are a lot of churches that have taken them in and are taking care of them. Are you supporting churches in that?

AM: Definitely. That is part of the imperative. I think the hand-out isn't to be sniffed at. Meeting someone's immediate need for shelter, food, clothes, companionship is important. It's baby and bath water, you shouldn't throw those things out.

But at the same time we need to recognise that these needs may be as a result of other needs and it's good to work out what else is going on, what other services there are, and what other help is available, to try and steer people towards the professional and good help that there is.

That's the responsibility of the church as well, to sign post people - not to try and do everything themselves but to signpost people to the resources that there are.


CT: Housing Justice has highlighted growing tensions between the Christian or faith approach to homelessness and the Government approach. Can you outline some of those tensions?

AM: The faith approach is responding to the Good Samaritan model, here is someone and here is their need. The structural approach taken by the Government is a much more structured one and moving much more towards enforcement as well. And there are tensions there because many churches feel quite uncomfortable about that.

It's difficult when you see someone who has been a victim of circumstances and is struggling for survival and may have a mental health issue or other circumstances, who may not be very good at managing their lives, and then they are being further victimised by for example anti-social behaviour orders, or have been evicted from a borough because they've been making a nuisance of themselves, and I'm not saying homeless people are saints because I know they're not. Many of them are difficult and challenging people. But churches are more uncomfortable with that kind of enforcement regime that's being introduced, in particular in Camden in London and Manchester.

And there are definite battles emerging between local authorities that want to see the end of soup runs, for example. Soup runs are where a lot of this argument takes place, which is why I set up a forum for soup runs in London in November 2005. It's beginning to make a bit of progress in coordinating soup runs and reducing the perception that there is overprovision, which there really isn't. In a big city like London, on most nights of the week there are probably at the most seven or eight groups covering the main central points and moving with the guys who use them.

The authorities criticise soup runs because they say they don't know who they are serving, that they don't know the needs that they have, they are complicating the situation and muddying the water because they are acting outside of structured services. Some authorities are very upfront about this and they say we only want services that we have commissioned.

In a sense we are starting from the same point, we both want to help homeless people. But local authorities are more about a structured approach: stop somebody from rough sleeping, don't give them any options, get them off the streets and into some sort of basic hostel-type accommodation, do an assessment of their needs, and move on them as quickly as possible.

CT: And presumably there are things about that you don't agree with?

AM: Well, there are things about that that I do agree with. But when those are the only services there are a lot of people who won't fit into this structured approach and who will be rejected. And what's going to happen to them? Are they supposed to starve to death on the streets? I wouldn't find that acceptable.

The local authorities say if people won't sign up to what is basically a care plan then they won't be entitled to services. That is the line that the authorities are starting to take.

We at Housing Justice believe it's important that people do have the motivation and encouragement, help, and that the services are there to help people in need and plenty of them - plenty of beds, plenty of rehabilitation beds and detox beds.

That's one of the reasons that people don't take up the offer of services, because there aren't enough. There is a shortage of services in London. For everyone sleeping on the streets there isn't a bed.

CT: And is Housing Justice working in tandem with the local authority to solve that problem?

AM: I am trying to join up the different viewpoints. I am acting to try to bridge that gap and speak to churches about the work of the local authorities and to local authorities about the work of the churches, the significant befriending and support work that churches and other groups are doing.

I'm trying to create a smarter system basically because I think churches are good at doing some things and local authority outreach teams are good at doing some things and they should be working more together.

The churches can provide a complementary service that would never be funded by the local authority but which could provide an extra level to the safety net to make sure that people don't starve and don't feel they are completely on their own, and they could also get alongside people to encourage them to take up the offers of help that are available.

CT: We have a new Prime Minister. What are you hoping he will bring in terms of housing?

AM: We hope he will bring through more affordable social housing. That is the background to any discussion about homelessness. It's not the only reason but it is an enormous reason why the hostels are full. There's nowhere to move them onto. Hostels are designed to be short-term accommodation while people are getting assessments and treatment if they need it, but six months or a year later they should be able to move on.

One group the hostels are not well set up to help are people whose only problem is homelessness and a lack of somewhere to live. The hostels have moved more towards people with support needs, and for the people who could work but don't have somewhere to live, housing, flats and bedsits are really expensive. Wages for single people and then the cost of housing; it's a difficult one.

We would really like to see more reasonably priced rented accommodation for working people. That's the affordable housing issue, the fact that housing has become such a tool of wealth creation and that is really incompatible with the role of housing to provide for people's short-term and other needs.